Thoughts on Flash and lighting for rally event

Studio Photography, Flash, Daylight and Studio Lights, Flash equipment and use
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15 Jan '13 Tue Jan 15, 2013 22:59    
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Post Re: Thoughts on Flash and lighting for rally event

- cardiff_gareth



....
The only way I can think is maybe using that lead, P-TTL gun and then an optical slave on another flash


Won't the prefalsh set off the optical slave first? I was messing with this last night using the on-board as a trigger.


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15 Jan '13 Tue Jan 15, 2013 23:06    
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Post Re: Thoughts on Flash and lighting for rally event

- Crossed-up


Oops missed the two stage bit Embarassed How about this. Datasheet here.


To answer my own question...its says two stage, but still only SPST normally open, so probably no good for this application. Oh well.
.


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15 Jan '13 Tue Jan 15, 2013 23:28    
cardiff_gareth
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Post Re: Thoughts on Flash and lighting for rally event

There wouldn't be a pre flash as the P-TTL lead would be attached to the camera hotshoe, the other end then attached to the flashgun and maybe on a flash bracket. I have this set up myself using nearly the same bracket that LB linked but I took mine apart to get rid of the handle etc. What you would then do somehow is have a 2nd flash on a bracket, as reading this thread your looking to have 2 flashes trigger at once?
The 2nd flash would then have to be triggered via a slave such as an optical slave, built in camera slave or maybe flash sync lead IF the P-TTL flashgun supported it. As the 'main flash' will only be firing on the 2nd curtain sync then this will trigger the 2nd flash to fire so in theory both fire on the 2nd curtain


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15 Jan '13 Tue Jan 15, 2013 23:29    
cardiff_gareth
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Post Re: Thoughts on Flash and lighting for rally event

Unless you mean pre flash as in red eye reduction lol !


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16 Jan '13 Wed Jan 16, 2013 00:28    
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Post Re: Thoughts on Flash and lighting for rally event

Ah OK, I think we might be talking at cross purposes and probably talking about two different projects; mine and LB's, albeit related. Having decided I want 2nd curtain functionality we have concluded that I'm going to need a flash with 'proper' Pentax connectivity i.e P-TTL, hence the Sigma and Metz options. I may then have confused matters by saying I might get two flashes Very Happy I probably only need one for my initial purposes , but there will be two of us shooting with identical K20D's and thought it would be wise to have two outfits the same so I can just give my brother the same settings, and the second reason that I may later (not at this event) play with triggering a second flash off camera. Obviously the off camera flash doesn't need to be an identical or new one, but at £160 they look good value (half the equivalent Pentax or Metz) As I understand it LB is building a two flash rig and needs a method of triggering them both simultaneously from a modified mechanical trigger, hence the switch and 7 Day Shop discussion. I then assumed (probably wrongly) that when you mentioned triggering the second flash from the P-TTL flash on the camera, that if it was actually operating proper P-TTL, it would fire the preflash for metering (is the preflash not an intergral part of PTTL?) thus triggering the optical trigger on the second flash, before the real flash for the exposure.

So, for my application I will probably have a pair of K20D's each with a Sigma 610 on a bracket connected to the hotshoe via the 7 Day Shop lead or similar, or mounted direct on the hotshoe. I'm not really bothered about using P-TTL for exposure control, I just need a P-TTL compatible flash so it communicates with the camera properly to give me the 2nd curtain trigger.

For LB's application I don't know if he is fussed about 2nd curtain or not, and just wants a way to trigger two guns from some sort of wired splitter that maintains isolation between the camera and flashes.

Electronically I can almost certainly sort something for me to play with one or more off-camera flashes at a later date, irrespective of whether the triggering flash performs the pre-flash or not, I can just make something to ignore the first flash and trigger on the second.

In any event, this has all made for one of the most active threads here for a while Laughing


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16 Jan '13 Wed Jan 16, 2013 08:28    
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Post Re: Thoughts on Flash and lighting for rally event

Thanks, that looks to be exactly the part I need. Indeed may be easier to use as it looks as if it might be usable directly without a mechanical switch cover. And it avoids the horrendous US->UK postage!

Will order that and a cheap Chinese remote cable release from Swansea for the pre-mounted plug and cable - as cheap as and easier than sourcing and making!

Re your bowden cable idea, remember that the standard shutter release thread has that awkward tapered thread.

I was only referring to 2x flashes because of your reference to same earlier. I don't want 2 on a portable rig (at least not for anything I'm doing currently), and if I did I'd use hotshoe and PC connection, or optical slave as I'd be in manual anyway so no issue. (The Wein peanut that Algi sent me would be ideal, but the Vivitars have the socket on the wrong side!) So probably the Vivitar SL-2 on the camera as that would also facilitate pivoting the other flash for portrait-aligned shots.

And re 2x P-TTL and the P-TTL pre-flash firing the optical slave, there are slaves which ignore it, plus circuits available to build. Simply ignores flashes of extremely short duration. (Not sure it would ignore the red-eye one though. Wink )

@Crossed-up: Why would this switch not work? I want stage 1 to pre-focus (hence the tactile), and stage 2 to fire shutter, so I'll just bridge 1/1 and 2/1.

@Gareth: Can you share a picture of your modified Vivitar bracket/handle sometime please?


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16 Jan '13 Wed Jan 16, 2013 09:45    
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Post Re: Thoughts on Flash and lighting for rally event

As I thought it was me who initiated all the confusion Laughing


Re. the switch, I only started to doubt it's suitability because it stated single poll-single throw even though it is apparently has two-stage action. As if it might have a soft pre-press that does nothing, then the second stage actually operates the switch.


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16 Jan '13 Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:33    
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Post Re: Thoughts on Flash and lighting for rally event

No worries on the "confusion" - I think it actually helped to explore some of these options.

Yes, there doesn't seem to be a consistent way to represent this type of switch using the accepted mnemonic standard. Each manufacturer seems to have its own description - which was why I was failing miserably at researching it! But there is a wiring diagram on page D-14 (page 4 in PDF numbers) of the specification for this 2 stage version only, showing 2 SPST's stacked.

So I think it's worth a few quid to find out. But not sure whether to go for the 1.5mm travel or the 2mm one (they don't stock the 1mm one so that's 1 less choice). I would think less is better in this case, as I'd imagine that the camera's shutter button travel is even less.


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16 Jan '13 Wed Jan 16, 2013 13:12    
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Post Re: Thoughts on Flash and lighting for rally event

That's all good then. I must admit I only had a cursory look at the datasheet just to check that it wasn't the size of a house. I would think the smaller travel version would be better too, its amazing how sensitive fingers are to minute movements.

Just wavering over ordering the Sigma flashes, at least if I do it via SRS's ebay shop I get the Nectar points Smile


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16 Jan '13 Wed Jan 16, 2013 20:13    
cardiff_gareth
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Post Re: Thoughts on Flash and lighting for rally event

Sorry! Yes, with the flash in P-TTL mode then it will pre fire to work out correct exposure but if your working with the flash in manual power output then no, there is no pre flash Wink


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17 Jan '13 Thu Jan 17, 2013 20:27    
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Post Re: Thoughts on Flash and lighting for rally event

Well, a brace of Sigmas arrived today Very Happy After a brief mess bit of messing about with one I can get 2nd curtain triggering to work but only in P-TTL mode, so I am getting the pre-flash as expected. There is no option (that I can see) of invoking 2nd curtain triggering in manual mode, but I seem to be able to dial the power up and down nicely using the flash exp. control. So things are looking promising. Just need to go out an try it on some moving objects outside now. It's sub-zero and snowing here now and I've already been A over T on the ice getting out the car earlier, so think I' think I'll wait until tomorrow and try it out on the way back from work in the nice dark country lanes.


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17 Jan '13 Thu Jan 17, 2013 21:44    
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Post Re: Thoughts on Flash and lighting for rally event

Sounds like a plan.

But if you want to use the flashes in manual mode, could you put the on-board flash into P-TTL trailing sync mode, then connect you new Sigma in manual mode via something like this Seagull-Wireless-Remote-Trigger-Reduction. Dial back the power of the on-board so that a) it doesn't impact the image, and b) shut down the flash early/fire it too late.

The above is just conjecture, as my newest flash is my wife's 280T!


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17 Jan '13 Thu Jan 17, 2013 22:05    
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Post Re: Thoughts on Flash and lighting for rally event

Yep, I think I have enough now to start playing. I have already tried using the on-board to trigger a remote optical trigger (similar to the one you posted but without the red-eye trigger adjust, but I have plenty of bits of circuitry I can put in line to delay or ignore flashes) and then theres the wireless options on the Sigmas too. So plenty of options now Very Happy Might need to get a few more sets of Hybrio AA'a now though!


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17 Jan '13 Thu Jan 17, 2013 22:34    
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Post Re: Thoughts on Flash and lighting for rally event

- Crossed-up

Might need to get a few more sets of Hybrio AA'a now though!

Are you sure? Check out the Vapex ones referred to here. Obtainable from manufacturer direct or via ebay, listed here.


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17 Jan '13 Thu Jan 17, 2013 23:15    
cardiff_gareth
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Post Re: Thoughts on Flash and lighting for rally event

yep, I use them! Got 16 of them! They're excellent batteries Wink


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